[Rigf_program] Definition of 'AP region'

parminder parminder at itforchange.net
Fri Mar 29 17:48:42 HKT 2013


On Friday 29 March 2013 02:23 PM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Agree with Adam's proposed text.
>
> As for economies or countries, we can be vague in order to avoid 
> political disputes.
>
> How about the following?
>
> "Asia Pacific Region: shall be the areas covered by South and
> Central Asia; East and South East Asia; Oceania and Western Pacific
> Islands

agree

parminder
>
> best,
>
>
> izumi
>
>
>
> 2013/3/29 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net 
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
>
>
>     On Friday 29 March 2013 11:58 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
>     > Also agree with Edmon. Point of our recent discussions has been to
>     > ensure the AP IGF is more inclusive.  How about:
>     >
>     > Asia Pacific Region: shall be the economies covered by
>
>     Again, can we say 'countries'
>
>     parminder
>
>     > South and
>     > Central Asia; East and South East Asia; Oceania and Western Pacific
>     > Islands [footnote, the APrIGF is an inclusive process, entities and
>     > individuals from countries/economies included in other
>     geographic and
>     > political definitions of the "Asia Pacific" please contact the MSG
>     > about participation.]
>     >
>     > The current draft of the operating principles does not limit
>     > membership to people/entities from the region, however defined.
>     >
>     > Perhaps need some care about practicality.  If allocating resources.
>     > Accommodating languages.  When talking to governments in Beijing
>     (as I
>     > hope we will - email sent to some GAC reps about that now) do we go
>     > with the ICANN definition of AP and talk to countries that have
>     other
>     > regional IGFs to take care of them?  Does that matter? (just makes
>     > things a little less clear cut perhaps.)
>     >
>     > Fouad, you said there's been a problem with South Asian countries.
>     > Could you explain.  As I understand South Asia they should be have
>     > always been included, I hope.
>     >
>     > Adam
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Kenny Huang, Ph.D.
>     <huangksh at gmail.com <mailto:huangksh at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >> Dear all,
>     >>
>     >> There are pros and cons for inclusive model and exclusive model.
>     >> Maximizing stakeholders' interests has no doubt to be the
>     ultimate goal,
>     >> any decision making should be based on the principle. Such as
>     Pacific
>     >> Islands stakeholders' interests should not be prohibited.
>     Either APNIC or
>     >> APTLD doesn't limit participation for Pacific Islands stakeholders.
>     >>
>     >>  From this point of view of maximizing stakeholders' interests,
>     the inclusive
>     >> model demonstrates positive externalities as the advantages
>     outweigh
>     >> the disadvantages.
>     >>
>     >> Best Regards
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Kenny Huang
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 29 March 2013 06:43, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com
>     <mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >>> Hi Edmon,
>     >>>
>     >>> Thats not a bad idea but we will rewind to issue number one of
>     >>> geographical recognition and interest from a broader
>     multistakeholder
>     >>> participation from governments and organizations that are not
>     aware of
>     >>> what APNIC is or APNIC's geographical distribution.
>     >>>
>     >>> On your idea, it brings diversity, it brings opportunity, it
>     brings
>     >>> scale, it brings innovation to the whole idea of regional IGF
>     activity
>     >>> and much more, it brings sharing. I like your model of
>     openness and
>     >>> inclusivity but I require your attention to the fact that
>     there are
>     >>> some things we will have to agree to and that is finding a
>     solution to
>     >>> our geographical representation within our MAG or MSG or
>     whatever is
>     >>> that we agree to call it.
>     >>>
>     >>> We need more discussion on this and I think Beijing would be a
>     good
>     >>> place to get together and address some of these issues.
>     >>>
>     >>> best
>     >>>
>     >>> Fouad
>     >>>
>     >>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:31 PM, Edmon Chung
>     <edmon at registry.asia <mailto:edmon at registry.asia>> wrote:
>     >>>> I would like to offer a suggestion... which perhaps not many
>     people like
>     >>>> because it is messy...
>     >>>> For our purposes, I feel we could consider being inclusive
>     rather than
>     >>>> exclusive.  That is, to resist the restriction of
>     participation, but rather,
>     >>>> to invite participation from anyone who believes they belong.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Since I do not think we need to "represent" anyone, I do not
>     think we
>     >>>> need an exclusive approach.  My belief is that this is an
>     open forum and
>     >>>> those who care enough for Asia Pacific are encouraged to
>     participate.  The
>     >>>> concept of "Asia Pacific" evolves over time... our focus
>     should be to share
>     >>>> knowledge and make the Asia Pacific Internet Governance work
>     better through
>     >>>> collaboration.  I personally do not see the need to "define"
>     a hard
>     >>>> borderline for participation.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> But that is just my opinion... and I will happily accept that
>     it may be
>     >>>> a minority view :-)
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Edmon
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>     >>>>> From: rigf_secretariat-bounces at ap.rigf.asia
>     <mailto:rigf_secretariat-bounces at ap.rigf.asia>
>     [mailto:rigf_secretariat- <mailto:rigf_secretariat->
>     >>>>> bounces at ap.rigf.asia <mailto:bounces at ap.rigf.asia>] On
>     Behalf Of Keith Davidson
>     >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 1:42 AM
>     >>>>> To: rigf_program at ap.rigf.asia <mailto:rigf_program at ap.rigf.asia>
>     >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rigf_program] Definition of 'AP region'
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Thanks Adam,
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> I think the reason for this was that we were aware of the
>     establishment
>     >>>>> of
>     >>>>> the Arab IGF and their initial meeting which was held last
>     year, so the
>     >>>>> APNIC
>     >>>>> defined region gave a pretty clear boundary...
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> One of the issues we have in this regard is that under the
>     ICANN ccNSO
>     >>>>> rules
>     >>>>> is that the Pacific Islands like American Samoa are
>     considered to be
>     >>>>> part of
>     >>>>> North America, and Tahiti and New Caledonia are considered
>     to be part
>     >>>>> of
>     >>>>> Europe. Yet they distinctly are Pacific Islands. And so in
>     organising
>     >>>>> our sub-
>     >>>>> regional PacificIGF, I had wanted to avoid these odd
>     demarcation lines
>     >>>>> and
>     >>>>> use the geographic location as the determinant factor in
>     deciding what
>     >>>>> the
>     >>>>> sub-region was. Again, I think the APNIC regional boundaries
>     are better
>     >>>>> than
>     >>>>> the ICANN ccNSO politically motivated boundaries.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Just incidentally, APTLD has a fluid option, allowing
>     countries who are
>     >>>>> on the
>     >>>>> immediate border of the ICANN ccNSO defined AP region to
>     choose to
>     >>>>> belong
>     >>>>> to APTLD or elsewhere - so it is possible that USA / Canada
>     / Central
>     >>>>> and
>     >>>>> Southern Americas countries who have borders in the Pacific
>     ocean etc
>     >>>>> could
>     >>>>> choose to belong to APTLD.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Maybe we could apply the same flexibility to our approach
>     for the
>     >>>>> APrIGF? It
>     >>>>> would seem preferable to allow the greatest amount of
>     flexibility of
>     >>>>> choice
>     >>>>> for individual countries and territories to opt in or opt out of
>     >>>>> participation?
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Cheers
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Keith
>     >>>>> On 28/03/2013 11:43 p.m., Adam Peake wrote:
>     >>>>>> Hi
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> Please see
>     >>>>>> <http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/organization/apnics-region>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> The group decided to adopt the APNIC's definition of the region
>     >>>>>> during
>     >>>>>> discussions at the end of last year.  I don't recall all
>     what was
>     >>>>>> said
>     >>>>>> now...
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> ICANN's region goes east to Iran. Other intergovernmental org
>     >>>>>> definitions include the pacific rim countries (from
>     Canada/Alaska to
>     >>>>>> Chile).
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> I think this definition is quite logical and avoids
>     duplication with
>     >>>>>> other IGFs rather than excludes, but I could be wrong.
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> Best,
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> Adam
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 7:37 PM, Fouad Bajwa
>     <fouadbajwa at gmail.com <mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>>
>     >>>>> wrote:
>     >>>>>>> AP leaves a vacuum to South Asian countries and that has
>     remained a
>     >>>>>>> contentious issue.
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> Fouad
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:35 PM, HiroHOTTA
>     <hotta at jprs.co.jp <mailto:hotta at jprs.co.jp>> wrote:
>     >>>>>>>> In the draft of Operating Principles document, AP region
>     is defined
>     >>>>>>>> as "the economies covered by APNIC".  This difinition is
>     different
>     >>>>>>>> from that of ICANN or APTLD.  I don't have specific
>     preference at
>     >>>>>>>> this moment, but I'd like to know the background why APNIC
>     >>>>>>>> definition is selected.  Also, I'd like to confirm there
>     is no
>     >>>>>>>> vacuum between the areas defined by APrIGF and by other
>     regional
>     >>>>>>>> IGF
>     >>>>>>>> organizations (such as Arab IGF).
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> (I believe this must have already been desicussed, but le
>     me ask)
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> Hiro
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >>>>>>>> Rigf_program mailing list
>     >>>>>>>> Rigf_program at ap.rigf.asia <mailto:Rigf_program at ap.rigf.asia>
>     >>>>>>>> https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> --
>     >>>>>>> Regards.
>     >>>>>>> --------------------------
>     >>>>>>> Fouad Bajwa
>     >>>>>>> ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor My Blog: Internet's
>     >>>>>>> Governance:
>     >>>>>>> http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
>     >>>>>>> Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa
>     >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >>>>>>> Rigf_program mailing list
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>     >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>     >>>>>> .
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> --
>     >>> Regards.
>     >>> --------------------------
>     >>> Fouad Bajwa
>     >>> ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor
>     >>> My Blog: Internet's Governance:
>     http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
>     >>> Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa
>     >>>
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>     >>
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
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>     >>
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>     >
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> -- 
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org <http://www.anr.org>

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