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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 29 March 2013 02:23 PM, Izumi
AIZU wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+YNoKihXkEjq7KVrxfVOFsp__505nLc_L_UV6=zZ6GMSNGU-A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Agree with Adam's proposed text.
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">As for economies or countries, we can be vague in
order to avoid political disputes.</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">How about the following?</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">"<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.399999618530273px">Asia
Pacific Region: shall be the areas covered by South and</span></div>
<div style=""><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.399999618530273px">Central
Asia; East and South East Asia; Oceania and Western Pacific</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.399999618530273px">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.399999618530273px">Islands</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
agree<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+YNoKihXkEjq7KVrxfVOFsp__505nLc_L_UV6=zZ6GMSNGU-A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style=""><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.399999618530273px"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=""><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.399999618530273px">best,</span></div>
<div style=""><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.399999618530273px"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">izumi</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
2013/3/29 parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im"><br>
On Friday 29 March 2013 11:58 AM, Adam Peake wrote:<br>
> Also agree with Edmon. Point of our recent
discussions has been to<br>
> ensure the AP IGF is more inclusive. How about:<br>
><br>
> Asia Pacific Region: shall be the economies covered
by<br>
<br>
</div>
Again, can we say 'countries'<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
parminder<br>
</font></span>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
> South and<br>
> Central Asia; East and South East Asia; Oceania and
Western Pacific<br>
> Islands [footnote, the APrIGF is an inclusive
process, entities and<br>
> individuals from countries/economies included in
other geographic and<br>
> political definitions of the "Asia Pacific" please
contact the MSG<br>
> about participation.]<br>
><br>
> The current draft of the operating principles does
not limit<br>
> membership to people/entities from the region,
however defined.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps need some care about practicality. If
allocating resources.<br>
> Accommodating languages. When talking to
governments in Beijing (as I<br>
> hope we will - email sent to some GAC reps about
that now) do we go<br>
> with the ICANN definition of AP and talk to
countries that have other<br>
> regional IGFs to take care of them? Does that
matter? (just makes<br>
> things a little less clear cut perhaps.)<br>
><br>
> Fouad, you said there's been a problem with South
Asian countries.<br>
> Could you explain. As I understand South Asia they
should be have<br>
> always been included, I hope.<br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Kenny Huang, Ph.D.
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:huangksh@gmail.com">huangksh@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>> Dear all,<br>
>><br>
>> There are pros and cons for inclusive model and
exclusive model.<br>
>> Maximizing stakeholders' interests has no doubt
to be the ultimate goal,<br>
>> any decision making should be based on the
principle. Such as Pacific<br>
>> Islands stakeholders' interests should not be
prohibited. Either APNIC or<br>
>> APTLD doesn't limit participation for Pacific
Islands stakeholders.<br>
>><br>
>> From this point of view of maximizing
stakeholders' interests, the inclusive<br>
>> model demonstrates positive externalities as
the advantages outweigh<br>
>> the disadvantages.<br>
>><br>
>> Best Regards<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Kenny Huang<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 29 March 2013 06:43, Fouad Bajwa <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>> Hi Edmon,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thats not a bad idea but we will rewind to
issue number one of<br>
>>> geographical recognition and interest from
a broader multistakeholder<br>
>>> participation from governments and
organizations that are not aware of<br>
>>> what APNIC is or APNIC's geographical
distribution.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On your idea, it brings diversity, it
brings opportunity, it brings<br>
>>> scale, it brings innovation to the whole
idea of regional IGF activity<br>
>>> and much more, it brings sharing. I like
your model of openness and<br>
>>> inclusivity but I require your attention to
the fact that there are<br>
>>> some things we will have to agree to and
that is finding a solution to<br>
>>> our geographical representation within our
MAG or MSG or whatever is<br>
>>> that we agree to call it.<br>
>>><br>
>>> We need more discussion on this and I think
Beijing would be a good<br>
>>> place to get together and address some of
these issues.<br>
>>><br>
>>> best<br>
>>><br>
>>> Fouad<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:31 PM, Edmon
Chung <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:edmon@registry.asia">edmon@registry.asia</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>> I would like to offer a suggestion...
which perhaps not many people like<br>
>>>> because it is messy...<br>
>>>> For our purposes, I feel we could
consider being inclusive rather than<br>
>>>> exclusive. That is, to resist the
restriction of participation, but rather,<br>
>>>> to invite participation from anyone who
believes they belong.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Since I do not think we need to
"represent" anyone, I do not think we<br>
>>>> need an exclusive approach. My belief
is that this is an open forum and<br>
>>>> those who care enough for Asia Pacific
are encouraged to participate. The<br>
>>>> concept of "Asia Pacific" evolves over
time... our focus should be to share<br>
>>>> knowledge and make the Asia Pacific
Internet Governance work better through<br>
>>>> collaboration. I personally do not see
the need to "define" a hard<br>
>>>> borderline for participation.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> But that is just my opinion... and I
will happily accept that it may be<br>
>>>> a minority view :-)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Edmon<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>>> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rigf_secretariat-bounces@ap.rigf.asia">rigf_secretariat-bounces@ap.rigf.asia</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rigf_secretariat-">rigf_secretariat-</a><br>
>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bounces@ap.rigf.asia">bounces@ap.rigf.asia</a>]
On Behalf Of Keith Davidson<br>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 1:42
AM<br>
>>>>> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rigf_program]
Definition of 'AP region'<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Thanks Adam,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I think the reason for this was
that we were aware of the establishment<br>
>>>>> of<br>
>>>>> the Arab IGF and their initial
meeting which was held last year, so the<br>
>>>>> APNIC<br>
>>>>> defined region gave a pretty clear
boundary...<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> One of the issues we have in this
regard is that under the ICANN ccNSO<br>
>>>>> rules<br>
>>>>> is that the Pacific Islands like
American Samoa are considered to be<br>
>>>>> part of<br>
>>>>> North America, and Tahiti and New
Caledonia are considered to be part<br>
>>>>> of<br>
>>>>> Europe. Yet they distinctly are
Pacific Islands. And so in organising<br>
>>>>> our sub-<br>
>>>>> regional PacificIGF, I had wanted
to avoid these odd demarcation lines<br>
>>>>> and<br>
>>>>> use the geographic location as the
determinant factor in deciding what<br>
>>>>> the<br>
>>>>> sub-region was. Again, I think the
APNIC regional boundaries are better<br>
>>>>> than<br>
>>>>> the ICANN ccNSO politically
motivated boundaries.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Just incidentally, APTLD has a
fluid option, allowing countries who are<br>
>>>>> on the<br>
>>>>> immediate border of the ICANN ccNSO
defined AP region to choose to<br>
>>>>> belong<br>
>>>>> to APTLD or elsewhere - so it is
possible that USA / Canada / Central<br>
>>>>> and<br>
>>>>> Southern Americas countries who
have borders in the Pacific ocean etc<br>
>>>>> could<br>
>>>>> choose to belong to APTLD.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Maybe we could apply the same
flexibility to our approach for the<br>
>>>>> APrIGF? It<br>
>>>>> would seem preferable to allow the
greatest amount of flexibility of<br>
>>>>> choice<br>
>>>>> for individual countries and
territories to opt in or opt out of<br>
>>>>> participation?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Cheers<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Keith<br>
>>>>> On 28/03/2013 11:43 p.m., Adam
Peake wrote:<br>
>>>>>> Hi<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Please see<br>
>>>>>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/organization/apnics-region"
target="_blank">http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/organization/apnics-region</a>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> The group decided to adopt the
APNIC's definition of the region<br>
>>>>>> during<br>
>>>>>> discussions at the end of last
year. I don't recall all what was<br>
>>>>>> said<br>
>>>>>> now...<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> ICANN's region goes east to
Iran. Other intergovernmental org<br>
>>>>>> definitions include the pacific
rim countries (from Canada/Alaska to<br>
>>>>>> Chile).<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I think this definition is
quite logical and avoids duplication with<br>
>>>>>> other IGFs rather than
excludes, but I could be wrong.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Best,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Adam<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 7:37
PM, Fouad Bajwa <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> AP leaves a vacuum to South
Asian countries and that has remained a<br>
>>>>>>> contentious issue.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Fouad<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at
3:35 PM, HiroHOTTA <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hotta@jprs.co.jp">hotta@jprs.co.jp</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>> In the draft of
Operating Principles document, AP region is defined<br>
>>>>>>>> as "the economies
covered by APNIC". This difinition is different<br>
>>>>>>>> from that of ICANN or
APTLD. I don't have specific preference at<br>
>>>>>>>> this moment, but I'd
like to know the background why APNIC<br>
>>>>>>>> definition is selected.
Also, I'd like to confirm there is no<br>
>>>>>>>> vacuum between the
areas defined by APrIGF and by other regional<br>
>>>>>>>> IGF<br>
>>>>>>>> organizations (such as
Arab IGF).<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> (I believe this must
have already been desicussed, but le me ask)<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Hiro<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>> Rigf_program mailing
list<br>
>>>>>>>> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>>>>>>> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>> Regards.<br>
>>>>>>> --------------------------<br>
>>>>>>> Fouad Bajwa<br>
>>>>>>> ICT4D and Internet
Governance Advisor My Blog: Internet's<br>
>>>>>>> Governance:<br>
>>>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank">http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/</a><br>
>>>>>>> Follow my Tweets: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa</a><br>
>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> Rigf_program mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Rigf_program mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
>>>>>> .<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Rigf_program mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Rigf_secretariat mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_secretariat@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_secretariat@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_secretariat"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_secretariat</a><br>
>>>>> -----<br>
>>>>> No virus found in this message.<br>
>>>>> Checked by AVG - <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.avg.com"
target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
>>>>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus
Database: 2641/6209 - Release Date:<br>
>>>>> 03/27/13<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Rigf_program mailing list<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Regards.<br>
>>> --------------------------<br>
>>> Fouad Bajwa<br>
>>> ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor<br>
>>> My Blog: Internet's Governance: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank">http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/</a><br>
>>> Follow my Tweets: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa</a><br>
>>><br>
>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>> Rigf_program mailing list<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Rigf_program mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Rigf_program mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Rigf_program mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia">Rigf_program@ap.rigf.asia</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
>> Izumi Aizu <<<br>
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo<br>
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, <br>
Japan<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.anr.org"
target="_blank">www.anr.org</a><br>
</div>
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