[Rigf_program] operating principles, proposed text on quorum etc

Wed Apr 3 12:29:29 HKT 2013

+1.
My concerns is rather - how to draw attention, participation and support of
the
governments. For that "steering" seems fine. I don't feel much threat.


izumi


2013/4/3 Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com>

> I personally agree with you Peng Hwa
>
> *Cheryl Langdon-Orr ...  **(CLO)*
>  http://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr
>
>
> On 3 April 2013 14:54, Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) <TPHANG at ntu.edu.sg> wrote:
>
>> Fouad,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Could you elaborate on your objection to/concern with “steering”? I
>> personally did not like “steering” myself at first but over time, I have
>> seen it used in Singapore for high-level groups. So high that often it’s
>> code for “actually we don’t do the heavy lifting like opening the car door,
>> turning on the aircon or radio, stepping on the gas, stepping on the
>> brakes, turning off the aircon or radio, etc”—we just steer. J Some
>> people even steer from the backseat. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> But seriously, I thought governments would be comfortable with the term
>> “steering”.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The slight issue with “organising” is that it sounds like the APrIGF
>> programme committee. And our discussion is intended to separate the two.*
>> ***
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Regards,****
>>
>> Peng Hwa****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Fouad Bajwa [mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 April, 2013 3:25 AM
>> *To:* Cheryl Langdon-Orr
>> *Cc:* Ang Peng Hwa (Prof); <rigf_program at ap.rigf.asia>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Rigf_program] operating principles, proposed text on
>> quorum etc****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Indeed I am with the democratic acceptance of the terminology but my
>> concern is from the government angle. +1 to quick agreement and getting on
>> with the show!****
>>
>> Best Regards****
>>
>> Fouad Bajwa****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device****
>>
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Interestingly enough I see no issue politically correct or otherwise with
>> the use of 'steering' or any of the other proferred terms ... What I do
>> believe we need to do (other than settle this SOON) is to have a title for
>> our 'regional IGG forum organanising / management and administration open
>> and widely representative function group' ;-) that is clearly
>> distinguishable amd different from the IGF MAG...****
>>
>> CLO from my Mobile phone****
>>
>> On 02/04/2013 11:24 PM, "Fouad Bajwa" <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:****
>>
>> Hello Ang, ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> How about a MoG instead of a MsG, a Multistakeholder Organizing Group.
>> Steering is just not a politically correct word. It may be very well in the
>> technical and academic communities but politically speaking, its just not
>> appropriate. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) <TPHANG at ntu.edu.sg>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Apologies for being away. Minor crisis is still a crisis and not resolved.
>> ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Fouad,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> The objection to the use of “steering” you raise apply no matter what
>> term is used. Substitute the word “steering” with “advisory” (I’m not
>> saying we should go with “advisory”) and you see what I mean.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Your point of concern in the last para. is valid. That is precisely what
>> the text is supposed to address. If it (the text) does not address it
>> sufficiently, then further suggestions for amendments would be needed.***
>> *
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Regards,****
>>
>> Peng Hwa****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* rigf_program-bounces at ap.rigf.asia [mailto:
>> rigf_program-bounces at ap.rigf.asia] *On Behalf Of *Fouad Bajwa
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 April, 2013 4:32 PM
>> *To:* Izumi AIZU
>> *Cc:* <rigf_program at ap.rigf.asia>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Rigf_program] operating principles, proposed text on
>> quorum etc****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> The word steering does raise a concern and is a question of legitimacy. *
>> ***
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> As an individual and volunteer, it causes me no personal discomfort to go
>> with MSG but from the political view of things, it causes me deep concern
>> that once governments are invited to participate beyond how they are doing
>> at the moment, (i have been gathering the feeling of reluctance and doing
>> it for the sake of it so that they are not left out),  steering is a third
>> party or a power group. ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> How do we make such a group accountable and transparent beyond the remit
>> of mailing lists is a challenge and the name choice is a rational issue. We
>> can all steer but the legitimacy to do so is also being define by ourselves
>> and not a multistakeholder group in reality. This should be somehow kept in
>> mind from the very beginning. ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Let me share an example, it may be a point of concern that some potential
>> members of the proposed MSG have been able to fund themselves and
>> participate in apnic or apstar occasions to discuss the APrIGF possibility
>> but this leaves out a majority of those who do not have access to such
>> venues or meetings. If this is the group that gives direction and
>> leadership to MSG in the near future, the polity of the group will always
>> be questioned. For example, who will comprise the MSG, how will the process
>> be carried out and by whom, how will transparency be ensured etc. So there
>> are a lot of issues here that will gradually evolve and have also come up
>> in the past. ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Best****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:****
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion, it looks like a very good idea to have such***
>> *
>>
>> voting mechanism. ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> As for the naming, I also have no problem with MSG (abbreviation is a
>> little****
>>
>> confusing, but that is another thing and OK for this).****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> We don't have to be exactly same as global IGF. There, making decision is
>> ****
>>
>> sometimes very sensitive, that's why UN SG was asked and advisory remains
>> ****
>>
>> as advisory. Here, at least so far, there is no political sensitivity to
>> that level****
>>
>> and also this is the body that decides the substance of the APrIGF, so***
>> *
>>
>> there has to be some kind of steering.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> izumi****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> 2013/4/2 Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>****
>>
>> Hi Fouad,
>>
>> To be honest, I don't see a problem with MSG.
>>
>> But the MAG is an advisory group. Who would an AP MAG be advising?
>> The IGF MAG had a mandate from the UN Secretary General to help him
>> convene the IGF.  It advises him.
>>
>> The MSG's task is to steer the process of organizing/holding the AP
>> regional IGF. A group comprised of multi-stakeholders who volunteer to
>> steer, guide,  plan, etc. the APrIGF.
>>
>> Sorry, I missing the problem!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Adam****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Adam,
>> >
>> > Are we till going to call the multistakeholder a steering group? I had
>> > shared earlier that this was a very confusing term. A multistakeholder
>> led
>> > process being steered? The advisory approach that is common around other
>> > regional and country IGF's should be considered. There is no harm in
>> having
>> > a MAG here. The ArabIGF also adoption the MAG term for its
>> multistakeholder
>> > group.
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all.
>> >>
>> >> Cheryl and I offered to edit the text of the draft operating
>> >> principles, section 6, membership, about "quorum".  We propose as new:
>> >>
>> >> For the affirmative vote to be quorate 3 of the 4 recognized
>> >> stakeholder groupings, as identified in section 4 "Organizational
>> >> Principles" of this document; Must have at least 5 votes cast by
>> >> individuals having previously established their Stakeholder Group
>> >> affiliation.
>> >>
>> >> (old text:  The quorum for any vote or decision by the MSG will be set
>> >> at 20 voting members, with at least 2 individuals having established
>> >> affiliation with each recognised stakeholder grouping.)
>> >>
>> >> Minium 20 members must vote, 5 members from 3 of the 4 groups.
>> >>
>> >> Comments please,
>> >>
>> >> Adam
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rigf_program mailing list
>> >> Rigf_program at ap.rigf.asia
>> >> https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Regards.
>> > --------------------------
>> > Fouad Bajwa
>> > ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor
>> > My Blog: Internet's Governance:
>> http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
>> > Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
>> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan
>> www.anr.org****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> --
>> Regards.
>> --------------------------
>> Fouad Bajwa
>> ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor
>> My Blog: Internet's Governance: http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
>> Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa****
>>
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>> ** **
>>
>> --
>> Regards.
>> --------------------------
>> Fouad Bajwa
>> ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor
>> My Blog: Internet's Governance: http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
>> Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa****
>>
>>
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>>
>
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-- 
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org
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